[Firemage]

Being a Political Scientist, policy issues always interest me, and so i bring to you a paintball related issue that has been dancing in my head since midsummer.

Most fields restrict firing modes, but not firing rate.

So when i note the ion user on the field talking about how by the time he's done pulling the tigger 22 rounds are in the air, i just have to wonder, why don't fields restrict BPS rather than the exact firing mode.

My A5 is never going to go beyond 15bps due to hardware limitations, or my brother's AT-85 which even in full auto mode gets only 12bps.

So where burst modes and full auto modes, and their 'safe' counterparts are often of limits, while turbo modes are normally in use.


Is the danger really in the firing mode, or rather in the rate of fire?

I know SPPL rules have a BPS limit, maybe fields and insurers might consider such a safer path.


and so ends the comments of your local semi-tired liberal

[d4rkmonkey]

Semi only makes sense. I've never seen anyone pull faster than around 15 bps, and if they can, they have god hands and deserve to be shooting faster than everyone else. Its also a lot easier to see that people are shooting semi instead of how fast they're shooting.

[e thom]

I understand where you're coming from but I think thats one of the beauties of paintball. When you spend four hundred plus bucks on a fun thats one of those things you're paying for is that twenty balls per second. You cant limit everyone else because your gun isn't as fast. I go play with my friends to the field and I rock a 98 ACT. Im about to buy a Mini just because its about time but all my friends guns shoot way faster then mine and I still have fun out there. Think of it as more of a challenge or save up to get you self a faster gun.

[Legato]

i agree with d4rk. Easier to see people shooting semi. It takes real skill to talk 15 BPS. Seriously. Try it. Most people get 12 BPS, 15 is like you are really really good, or on 5 redbulls. No one can hit 22 in semi. Ramping or FA sure, but those are illegal at almost every field.

The reason FA and ramping are not allowed is due to safety. I can stop a stream of shots in semi by stopping my finger, i phyiscally have to pull the trigger each time and can tell when i lay a stream of fast paint, and can stop on a dime. With FA or ramping, you aren't pulling the trigger each time for each ball, so you lose control. You could readily light someone up and not know it, cause you are just holding down the trigger, or walking at +3BPS for ramping. Yeah you can stop by letting go, but it isn't as fast a stop and you still aren;t really in control to what you are shooting. Insurance companys don't want people gettting hurt. By forcing you to shoot semi they are expecting you to keep control of your shootting.

I play pump exclusively, so i don't want ot hear Lego favors electros and thinks mechs suck. That is a lie. I just do believe that there is real skill involved in walking a trigger. It isn't somehting everyone can do equally. Some guys can just pelt out shots in semi with ease, and some struggle. Just the way it is.

All i can say is if you want more BPS from your electro, make sure you are using the right trigger for your shooting style. Triggers matter more then anything in how fast you fire. If it isn't setup to your style of shooting, you will shoot far slower then one that is made for how you shoot

[ghostinthewood]

Eh... not to sound like a know it all but everyone around here who has been playing in the national scene can shoot 15. Its almost a requirement.

Firing MODES are supposed to be accompanied by CAPS so the bps vs mode argument shouldnt apply. It just means A. your field sucks or B. they dont know what theyre talking about. Currently, PSP is limited to 10.5 bps for most divisions. I think Millennium is at 13.3 still. Neither are very fast by either means so any "overshooting" argument is nill. You'll get overshot more by a decent player shooting semi.

It is also actually easier to technically cheat with semi-auto markers. When everyone's markers are shooting the same its easier to tell who is cheating. It is why the NPPL/USPL is also notorious for cheating when theyre a semi-only league. People would have toothbruses up their sleeves and runaway bounce. Oh the 300fps and Push days of paintball...xD That is also why the emphasis on markers has gone away from speed. Most ads dont make that a priority anymore. Most people, at least in the tourney scene, dont care anymore since XBall has everyone on a level playing field.

I am sorry but on a cheating standpoint, semi-auto has tried and failed in fairness.

[Thalion]

It's an insurance issue more than any field policy -- the insurance companies insist semi only, and because they control whether or not you're insured, a field owner has little say in the matter.

My home field has both a "semi or pump only" and a 12 BPS rate of fire limit. They do not restrict your gear selection (unlike the SPPL type rules which require a slower hopper to enforce the rate). Usually they ignore ROF (play it by ear - you know when someone's hitting 15 instead of 12), but if there's been cause they'll do a random "check every electro" since we have a few sponsored players that can really get those fingers going.


Personally, I can hit 12-13 on the rare occasion I want to. Doesn't bother me either way.

[Firemage]

As mentioned in the opening, i was a bit tired when i typed this, but i should have mentioned the field allows ramping but restricts other firing modes.

The rules say semi-auto + pump only, but most people with electros are using some form of ramping, maybe this is a problem with the field.

Oh and about my own rate of fire, when i got my egrip (new style) i tested all the modes (including a test of the safe full auto slowed to 8bps) but then settled on the Auto-RT mode.

This post has been edited by Firemage: 10 November 2009 - 10:32 AM

[Thalion]

Firemage, on Nov 10 2009, 11:28 AM, said:

As mentioned in the opening, i was a bit tired when i typed this, but i should have mentioned the field allows ramping but restricts other firing modes.

The rules say semi-auto + pump only, but most people with electros are using some form of ramping, maybe this is a problem with the field.

Is it that the field allows ramping, or is it that they just don't enforce the rules?

[Self Medicated]

Hmmm... I don't know about where everyone else plays, but my home field has a 15bps cap as well as not allowing ramping, full auto, or burst modes. And they enforce it. My promaster is set to semi capped at 15bps and my SLG is actually capped at 10.5bps in semi, so they don't have a problem with me.

EDIT:

ghostinthewood, on Nov 10 2009, 12:52 AM, said:

It is why the NPPL/USPL is also notorious for cheating when theyre a semi-only league.

So the current NPPL/USPL league games are uncapped semi-auto? If so, that's kinda lame in my opinion.

This post has been edited by Self Medicated: 10 November 2009 - 11:53 AM

[Firemage]

to be honest i can't be sure with that one.

[ghostinthewood]

Self Medicated, on Nov 10 2009, 11:49 AM, said:

EDIT:

ghostinthewood, on Nov 10 2009, 12:52 AM, said:

It is why the NPPL/USPL is also notorious for cheating when theyre a semi-only league.

So the current NPPL/USPL league games are uncapped semi-auto? If so, that's kinda lame in my opinion.

http://www.uspaintballleague.com/events/wo...pionships/rules

7.01

This post has been edited by ghostinthewood: 10 November 2009 - 12:10 PM

[Self Medicated]

Wow, that's pretty stupid. I mean, I can't think of anyone I know (off the top of my head) that can shoot in semi faster than 15bps, but you would think they would at least cap it to deter the cheaters.

[ghostinthewood]

Self Medicated, on Nov 10 2009, 12:55 PM, said:

Wow, that's pretty stupid. I mean, I can't think of anyone I know (off the top of my head) that can shoot in semi faster than 15bps, but you would think they would at least cap it to deter the cheaters.

*shrug* I can think of people that can do it, maybe not consistently but they can.

Anywho, its why capped ramping is the way to go. =]

[Thalion]

To each his own. I personally like semi or pump, but that's just me. I can see the benefit of capped ramping for tournament regulation purposes though.

[ghostinthewood]

As I said before, if the NPPL cant even enforce their own rules on semi-auto only, I doubt rec fields can. I see no realistic benefits for semi-only fields. If you want to play semi go for it, but I know of way too many ways to cheat and way too many people who can shoot beyond caps for there to be any arguments for semi-ONLY.

Pump should be capped too